Answer to: Isn't it true that the dead know nothing?

Dear Philip,

Thank you so much for your question. You wrote:

I am studying the doctrine of whether or not we go to heaven when we die. In one of your articles relating to heaven you write 'David was saved and went to heaven'. Yet we read in Acts 2:34 it clearly states that David (a man after God's own heart) did not ascend to heaven. Isn't it true that the dead know nothing (Eccles 9:5) until the resurrection? So the dead (even the righteous dead) are not in heaven but in the grave awaiting a resurrection?

Or am I missing something?

I think that the first thing that you are missing is that the soul and the body are two different things.

2Co 5:8 We are confident, [I say], and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

In this verse we see two things. First you can be absent from the body. This is talking about when you die your soul seperates from the body.

The second thing we learn from this verse is that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. Of course the qualifier there is if you are saved.

When you die your body goes to the grave awaiting a resurrection and your soul goes either to heaven or to hell.

Your soul does not sleep. We see this over and over again in scripture. A good example is in Luke Chapter 16. Two men die and look what happens to them.

Luk 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

In verse 22 we read that their bodies were buried.

Luk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

In verse 16 it is obvious that we are not talking about their bodies because they are still in a grave. What we are reading about is the soul that is seperated from the fleshly body. And we see that after you die your soul does have bodily form even though it is not the new glorified body. That happens at the last trump.

Luk 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

Lazarus was still recognizable as Lazarus and he still had a finger. The rich man could feel and was tormented.

Luk 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

Lazarus is in Paradise and the rich man is in torment.

Luk 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that [would come] from thence.

And after you die you can not get out of torment.

Another example is the mount of transfiguration.

Luk 9:28 And it came to pass about an eight days after these sayings, he took Peter and John and James, and went up into a mountain to pray.

Luk 9:29 And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment [was] white [and] glistering.

Luk 9:30 And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias:

Luk 9:31 Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.

Luk 9:32 But Peter and they that were with him were heavy with sleep: and when they were awake, they saw his glory, and the two men that stood with him.

Moses who died thousands of years previously came and talked with Jesus on the mountain. His soul had bodily form. He was recognizable as a man and talked with Jesus. Again this is not Moses in a glorified body because Jesus has not yet come back. This is Moses' soul and it is not asleep in a grave.

Another example should be sufficient.

Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

Here we have souls of men that were slain for their testimony and their souls are not in a grave but in heaven and they are talking and asking God a question.

The Bible is clear, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. (That is if you have accepted Jesus as your personal savior. You are saved by faith and not by works.)

I think that the second thing that you are missing is the context of the verses you cite.

As far as Acts 2:34 you must always look at a verse in its context.

What is the verse before it and after it talking about. How does it fit into the topic at hand? The context is talking about how Jesus rose from the grave and asended in a resurrected body. David nor anyone else has done this. Acts 2:34 is talking about David's body not David's soul.

Albert Barnes puts it this way:

For David is not ascended into the heavens - That is, David has not risen from the dead and ascended to heaven. This further shows that Psa_16:1-11 could not refer to David, but must refer to the Messiah. Great as they esteemed David, and much as they were accustomed to apply these expressions of the Scripture to him, yet they could not be applicable to him. They must refer to some other being; and especially that passage which Peter now proceeds to quote. It was of great importance to show that these expressions could not apply to David, and also that David bore testimony to the exalted character and dignity of the Messiah. Hence, Peter here adduces David himself as affirming that the Messiah was to be exalted to a dignity far above his own. This does not affirm that David was not saved, or that his spirit had not ascended to heaven, but that he had not been exalted in the heavens in the sense in which Peter was speaking of the Messiah.

As far as Eccles 9:5 lets look at the context.

Ecc 9:4 For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.

Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

Ecc 9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any [thing] that is done under the sun.

We have seen in all the examples that I gave earlier that the dead do know quite a bit. We saw that they remember, and talk, and reason. They are awake and aware. So the phrase in verse 5 "the dead know not any thing" cannot mean what you imply.

The context clears is up. What you have to ask is; what exactly is the any thing in verse 5 referring to. For example I can say that I do not know anything about racing cars. (That is true by the way) But that does not mean that I don't know anything at all. You have to know what is the anything referring to.

Verse 6 answers that. "...neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun." The anything is specifically that which is done under the sun. (A reference to the earth).

They cannot earn any more reward (verse 5). Their emotions and activity on the earth is finished. They are not in heaven or hell reading the daily newspaper or watching the news on T.V.

Philip I do hope that this helps clear up the issue for you. And I thank you for the opportunity to give you an answer.

 

 

Everyone has a preconceived idea of what sin is.   And what one person says that it is, another will deny it.  One person will say that drinking is a sin and someone else will say that it is not.  And most often when someone says that a certain thing is not a sin, you will find that they are engaged in that sin.  They like their sin more than they love God so people will tend to find teachers who will teach what they want to hear.  They like to have their conscience soothed.  We truly live in the day that 2 Timothy 4:3 is referring to.  “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;” It is bad enough that in their own lust that they heap to themselves false teachers and will not endure sound doctrine, but then they try to get others to join them. 

 

Listening to all the different teachings out there will just get you confused.  I thank God that we do not have to listen to opinions.  To know what sin is all we have to do is look and see what God says that it is.

 

 1)        Sin is transgression against the law.

 

1Jo 3:4  Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

The law is more than the Ten Commandments.  The Law is referring to all the laws and commandments that God gave Moses to give to the people.  That is why it is also called the Law of Moses.  One example of this is 1Co 9:9 “For it is written in the Law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn.”  This law actually contains hundreds of laws.

 

2)         Man cannot keep the law.

 

Jam 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all.

The law is too vast for a man to keep it all, and if he offends in just one thing in the law then the Bible says that he is guilty of all.  Lets look at just one point of the law.  The law says that “Thou shalt not bear false witness” or in other words you are not to tell a lie.  Everyone has told some kind of lie during his or her lifetime.  It might be something small. It might be a little white lie or some exaggeration.  You might have even stretched the truth just a little to help cheer someone up.  Anything that is not 100 truth is a lie.   Man cannot keep the law.  That is why the Bible says in Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.  That is why we have to turn to Jesus.  Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

 

 

3)         Sin is of the devil.

 

1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

 

Joh 8:44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

 

Sin is of the devil.  It started with him.  You can read of the devils fall into sin in Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! [how] art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Isa 14:13  For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:  Isa 14:14  I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.  Isa 14:15  Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.  After the devil fell into sin he went and temped Eve.  Sin loves company.  And notice how many times he said I will.  Sin is basically anything that is an “I will” instead of God’s will.

 

4)      Anything unrighteous is sin.

 

1Jo 5:17  All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

 

Some people want to have an all-inclusive list for what are sins.  Creating this list would be impossible for it is anything that is unrighteous.  The list would be so long that you could not read it all, and if you could read it all you could not remember everything in the list.  

 

5) Not only are sins things that you do, but sins can be things that you do not do.

 

So far all of the verses on sin that we have looked at are sins of commission.  That is things that you have done.  But that is not the only kind of sin.  There are also sins of omission. 

 

Jam 4:17  Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth [it] not, to him it is sin.   If you know that God says to not forsake the assembling of yourselves together, and you do not go to church, then it is a sin.  If you know that God says to tithe and you do not, then it is a sin.  If you know that God says to love thy neighbor and you do not, then it is a sin.  God says to witness, help the fatherless, widows, poor, and the list goes on.  We are all guilty of the sin of not always doing the good that we know to do.

 

6)         A lack of faith is sin.

 

Rom 14:23  And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because [he eateth] not of faith: for whatsoever [is] not of faith is sin.  This is another sin that we are all guilty of.  Whatsoever is not of faith is sin.  Sometimes it is our finances, sometimes it is our witnessing, and sometimes it is just not having enough faith to trust God with the trial that we are going thru.  

 

7)         Foolish thoughts are sin.

 

Pro 24:9  The thought of foolishness [is] sin: and the scorner [is] an abomination to men.  Having a foolish thought is sin even if we do not act on it.  A good example of this is Mat 5:28  But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.  If a man looks at another woman, even for a moment, that thought is still a sin.  Even if he never touches her. 

 

8)         Our imaginations can be sin.

 

Gen 6:5  And GOD saw that the wickedness of man [was] great in the earth, and [that] every imagination of the thoughts of his heart [was] only evil continually.

 

Gen 8:21  And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart [is] evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.

 

           

Truly all people have sin.  The Bible clearly teaches that sin is not just the things that people do to get thrown in jail.  Sin is more than hurting someone else.  A simple definition of sin would be anything that is against the will of God.  Both the things that we do that are against the will of God and the things that we don’t do that He wants us to. 

 

That leaves us with what to do about it.  Well first if you are not saved then pray to God and admit to Him that you are a sinner and ask Him to save you.  Rom 10:13  For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.   Then after you are saved and you mess up in some area, then confess it to God and ask for forgiveness.  1Jo 1:9  If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Number one – God cannot lie.

Titus 1:2         In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;  Hebrews 6:18    That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:

You might be thinking duh.  Of course God cannot lie.  But if you stop just for a moment and think about it, you will see that most churches, bible colleges, and preachers, actually teach that God does lie.  Let me give you just a few examples.

The Bible is very clear that man cannot work his way to heaven.  Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags…  Your works do not impress God.  The Bible says they are as filthy rags!  Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast.  That is pretty clear.  You are saved through faith and not of yourselves, not of works!  And yet works is what the Catholics teach, and the Mormons, as well as many others.  By teaching a works salvation contrary to what God has said, they are teaching that they are right and God is wrong.  They are teaching that God lied!

The Bible teaches that you cannot buy your way to heaven.  Acts 8:20  But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.  Both the man and his money perished because he could not buy the gift of God with money.  It is so basic.  If you buy something, then it is no longer a gift.  And yet the Catholics teach that you can buy your way out of purgatory and into heaven.  They are teaching that they are right and God is wrong.  They are teaching that God lied!

God said that his words are pure and perfect and that He would preserve them.  He said that they shall not pass away.  Psalm 12:6-7  The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.  Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.  Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.  So either God’s words are with us today or God lied.  You have no other choice.  And yet most churches’ statement of faith says that God’s words are perfect but only in the original autographs.  In other words God lied and did not preserve his pure perfect words for us today.  They are teaching that they are right and God is wrong.  They are teaching that God lied!

And the list would be endless.  I am glad that my God cannot lie.  I am glad that I have his words in my Bible, and that I can trust them because God cannot lie.